Curse

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 23, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Actually Guild Wars is free to play. You play it without paying a fee. You do need to pay for an account, but not to play. It's free to play.

Rekliss · Nov 23, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

If you don't like the way it's going, don't play. I don't play other games because of the pay-to-play. I'm a firm beliver in the fact that if I have to pay a monthly fee, I don't have to pay $40 for the game in the first place (have yet to see that happen).

/notsigned

FoxBat · Nov 23, 2009, 05:16 PM // 17:16

How I see the OP and everyone else talking past each other: yes GW1 could be a better game if it had fee support, in theory. The problem is it wouldn't have made nearly as much money, which translates into not having any more resources at all. Even if half the guru hardcore fanboys would appreciate it (and this thread shows that obviously isn't the case), you'd lose so much on the "play a campaign for a few months and move on" type that it's not even funny.

GW succeeded financially precisely because they didn't engineer it for long-term gameplay. It's not the best game to play for years and years, and it's not suppoed to be. It's not worth their time trying to make and sell major content to their dwindling active population, when they can make so very much more from non-committal gamers on the next boxed product.

Names Schmames · Nov 23, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

After "quitting" GW i tried two pay to play mmorpgs and i found they offered me nothing justifying a fee which i didnt find in GW beyond grind and a 3D chat room and i did raids and was in guilds all that stuff. Played one a month and the other two and both had me log on one day and then ask myself "well it was fun for abit but why am i still paying and playing" and the answer was "youre still playing because you paid and it feels like a waste of money if you dont".

Compared to that i played GW right from the start and kept at it for like years (still got my very first char and he got his 4th year pet now so i guess its 4, in theory :P ). Because i could stop when i was bored and come back anytime.

PS : Dont think p2p would have averted the downward spiral caused by heroes and catering to soloers and chievemint farmers/grinders

Lifeshield · Nov 23, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Actually Guild Wars is free to play. You play it without paying a fee. You do need to pay for an account, but not to play. It's free to play.

It's not free to play if you have to buy an account to play it in the first place.

jonnieboi05 · Nov 23, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifeshield

It's not free to play if you have to buy an account to play it in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Actually Guild Wars is free to play. You play it without paying a fee. You do need to pay for an account, but not to play. It's free to play.

This.

~LeNa~

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 23, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Out of interest, how well is perfect world supported/updated. They use micropayments I believe.

Sword Hammer Axe · Nov 23, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

How I see the OP and everyone else talking past each other: yes GW1 could be a better game if it had fee support, in theory. The problem is it wouldn't have made nearly as much money, which translates into not having any more resources at all. Even if half the guru hardcore fanboys would appreciate it (and this thread shows that obviously isn't the case), you'd lose so much on the "play a campaign for a few months and move on" type that it's not even funny.

GW succeeded financially precisely because they didn't engineer it for long-term gameplay. It's not the best game to play for years and years, and it's not suppoed to be. It's not worth their time trying to make and sell major content to their dwindling active population, when they can make so very much more from non-committal gamers on the next boxed product.

Bingo. Their choice of strategy was the right one ^^

Voodoo Rage · Nov 23, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Names Schmames

After "quitting" GW i tried two pay to play mmorpgs and i found they offered me nothing justifying a fee which i didnt find in GW beyond grind and a 3D chat room and i did raids and was in guilds all that stuff. Played one a month and the other two and both had me log on one day and then ask myself "well it was fun for abit but why am i still paying and playing" and the answer was "youre still playing because you paid and it feels like a waste of money if you dont".

Compared to that i played GW right from the start and kept at it for like years (still got my very first char and he got his 4th year pet now so i guess its 4, in theory :P ). Because i could stop when i was bored and come back anytime.

PS : Dont think p2p would have averted the downward spiral caused by heroes and catering to soloers and chievemint farmers/grinders

This weekend after beating the last campaign with my 11th character I decided that maybe it was time to move onto to something else. I tried a free trial of WoW and it was terrible. So I did a little research on a good PvE game and purchased Lord of the Rings Online and pre-paid for 3 months (hoping to give me incentive to "stick it out" and get involved in the game).

What a piece of garbage. Maybe I'm just really over-attuned to GW since it is really the only RPG that I have played but I absolutely HATED trying to switch to another game. The graphics were terrible, monsters did not show up on the radar (no drawn aggro bubble), monsters respawned themselves, the combat system was very very clunky and unresponsive (you get a lot of "can't do that while moving"), all the characters looked the same...it was pretty bad.

Honestly, I'd be more than happy to pay a subscription even to Guild Wars if I would be guaranteed a continuous stream of new content.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 23, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifeshield

It's not free to play if you have to buy an account to play it in the first place.

No. You pay for an account; playing the game is free. Thus, free to play.

FoxBat · Nov 23, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

You pay for an account; playing the game is free.

Because you don't need an account to play.

Even NCSoft has never described GW as free-to-play, because it's not. GW is still in a very unique category like D2 inbetween P2P and F2P games, unique enough that we don't have a good name for it yet.

37er · Nov 23, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

@Shanaeri Rynale:

gtfo to wow

Lifeshield · Nov 23, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Because you don't need an account to play.

This.

Guild Wars is not free to play because you have to spend money to buy an account to play it. That means you cannot play Guild Wars for free at all.

For all four campaigns it's costing a player on average around £60-£70 (and if they bought at release or got collectors editions you can bet they cost alot more).

Free to play means free to acquire with no subscription fees whatsoever. The current version of Dungeons & Dragons Online is a decent example. You don't have to buy a copy of the game neither are you required to take up a subscription.

AlsPals · Nov 23, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Had GW been pay to play, I wouldnt have quit D2. Game is one of the most fun in years, but I pay 1 time. Period.

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 23, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basch Oria

@Shanaeri Rynale:

gtfo to wow

Lol. I don't play WoW. I tried it for a bit and liked some things, but hated most.

But I have seen some of the benefits of regular subscriptions in MMO's (not just wow) and wondered if such a model would be of benefit to my primary game which after 4 years and 15K hours is still GW.

I really do hate to see what has happened to GW over the last 18 months or so. Things that would never have been allowed to happen in 2005/06 have been just neglected.

For me, If the price of that being reversed was to pay a sub, then I would do..

dunky_g · Nov 23, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

If I wanted to pay monthly to play a game, I would.

But I dont.

So I play Guild Wars.

BlackSephir · Nov 23, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Cool, my time machine worked. It's 2005 AGAIN.

QueenofDeath · Nov 23, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

The more I think about it and with the benefit of hindsight, I am pretty much convinced that Guild Wars and in all probabilty Guild Wars 2 should have been pay to play.

So what's made me reach this almost heretical conclusion?

Guild Wars has one of the best combat ideas ever seen in an MMO. Being able to change your skills, the equality of equipment and armor are all completely wonderful. They allow for a richness, inventiveness and nuances of gameplay that in my experience have never been matched.

The lore is evocotive, intesting and compelling and the slickness of it all just draws you in.

Some may say the free to play, chapter model worked really well. Just look at how many copies were sold, how much we got for our money etc etc. And to some degree I agree. However consider what we would have got, had we had to pay even a nominal amount (say $5) a month.

We would have been able to.
- Have proper GM's who could retrieve deleted items/trashed accounts.
- Have a bigger development team releasing regular content updates
- Able to have a team of people re-skilling mobs and so adapting to fotm builds, and thus keeping us on our toes and busy
- More of a sense of 'hands on the wheel' by Anet, and so a more confident community
- More CM's who have the time to interact with the players.

Now, what we get now is great for having to pay nothing a month. BUT we would be able to get all the above AND GW2 being developed for a nominal fee a month. Especially when GW2 is still a least a year away.

I was never really a fan of Pay to play, but in an MMO I can see where such a thing can add real value to the players.

Take a look at the current (sorry) state of PvE, and think what reskilling of AI/mobs every so often would do for the game, regular skill updates and new content once in a while. Think of PvP with proper cash prizes(as it used to be) with a full team of developers behind it.

That is what pay to play brings you.

Think of GM's who can get back your stuff/accounts if you have been scammed or hacked and the comfort you feel from knowing if the worst happens, they have your back.

That is what pay to play brings you.

GW may have never been intended to become a full MMO, but thats what it is now, and thats what GW2 will be, and indeed this is now my major concern for GW2. That we get a year or so of good stuff, and then due to lack of resource it dies at the vine. Pay to play would give Anet the resources to manage it better longer term.

Would GW have sold as many copies as if it had been P2P? I don't know, my gut feel is that the effect on sales would not have been as bad as I once thought. What I do realise is that MMO's need continual changes, updates and 'an energy about them' and that does not come for free. Without that they, whither and die and lose their way.

That is what happened to GW in my view, and I would hate it happen to GW2.

Man I couldn't agree with you more. If it had been pay to play there wouldn't be all the riff raff in the game as well as on forums. I've played many a pay to play mmo/mmorpg and I've never seen the likes of the horrible griefing inconsiderate dishonest disloyal crybaby customer base attitude and personality as this game has.

It's become THE BABYSITTER for 12 year olds and under (even though the EULA says they are not allowed to play). Parents who don't obey the law and disregard any rules and regulations they press the button and they agree to when they press that button.

It has elitists galore that think because they can press 8 buttons in a row they know everything about the game, PVE and PVP hahaha (there's a lot of them here).

Bring back the $15 a month fee and you'll get rid of most of that.

gremlin · Nov 23, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

There is a third option when it comes to free play and pay to play and thats the one they went with in "Dungeon Runners"

Its free to download and play but if you pay some money you get extras.

More xp so you level up faster
you can use more powerful items.
Larger potions can be used
Finally you get a bling gnome that appears in dungeon and converts unwanted items directly to gold.

I cannot help thinking that since they have tried all this out in DR maybe some will appear in GW2.
The gnome is a little like the merchant summoning item.

DreamWind · Nov 23, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

There is something people aren't taking into consideration. First, Guild Wars has always been pay to play. It just doesn't have a monthly fee. Now that we got that out of the way...

For most players Guild Wars essentially had a monthly fee...it was just every 6months instead of every 1 month. Anet was just brilliant at marketing it. This is particularly true for PvP players, who had to have the new campaigns to compete. So back for the expansions, you could essentially count the monthly fee as $8-9 a month if you wanted to continue playing competitively or have new content.

So I can see the OP's point. Since Anet abandoned GW1 expansions in favor of GW2, GW1 has received much less attention which was expected. Even with the Anet genius that is suckering people into microtransactions, the game has received much less attention. So while GW1 was a success commercially, it was a failure in that it doesn't live up to other games anymore in other ways (which is largely why it is dying or dead in some cases). That is just a product of the model though, and the pattern will certainly continue into the sequel. I suppose this is the reason I always advocated Anet stay with the competitive model rather than the MMO model, but such is the past.